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Join Andrew and the incredible Katie Shesko, a speed runner and video game music enthusiast, as they embark on an epic journey through the captivating world of The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom. Katie's passion video game music, and her love for Zelda shine through as they traverse the magical landscapes of Hyrule, explore the game's innovative mechanics, and share their thoughts on its predecessor, Breath of the Wild.
This episode is a treasure chest of insights into Tears of the Kingdom's unique features - the innovative 'Ascend' ability, multi-level puzzles, weapon crafting techniques, and the enchanting sky and underground realms. They also discuss the charming and occasionally silly side quests that add a whimsical touch to the overall gaming experience.
Wrapping things up, they draw comparisons between Tears of the Kingdom and Breath of the Wild, discussing what sets these two games apart and why they are both must-play adventures for any Zelda fans.
*Katie generously allowed us to use her music for this episode so now that you've had a taste, go check out the rest of her catalogue!*
https://www.katieshesko.com/
https://www.youtube.com/c/KatieShesko
https://open.spotify.com/artist/5c0krX51BSRvIeUe3ehQa9
TIME STAMPS
Underground area chat - 30:40
Underground chat ends - 36:54
Full spoilers - 45:51
Verdicts/spoilers end - 1:22:20
What's up everybody, welcome back to the neighborhood and thank you for spending part of your day with us today. If you're a returning listener, thank you and welcome back, and if this happens to be your first episode, thank you and welcome to the show. On this episode, we're talking about the Legend of Zelda Tears of the Kingdom. Welcome to the podcast where two longtime friends, and sometimes a guest, talk about their favorite games from the perspective of an average player. My name is Andrew Kimball and I'm Dylan Ren, and we are your friendly neighborhood gamers. The Legend of Zelda Tears of the Kingdom is a 2023 action-adventure game developed and published by Nintendo for the Nintendo Switch. The sequel to the Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild, tears of the Kingdom retains the open world of Hyrule, which has been expanded to allow for more vertical exploration. The player controls Link, who must help Princess Zelda to stop Ganondorf from destroying Hyrule. Tears of the Kingdom was conceived after ideas for Breath of the Wild's downloadable content had exceeded its scope. Its development was led by Nintendo's entertainment planning and development division. It received acclaim for its improvements, expanded open world and features encouraging exploration and experimentation. It sold more than 10 million copies in its first three days of release. So this is normally the part of the show where I would throw a prompt to Dylan and have him respond, but Dylan's not here because he has not played this game, so I brought on a very special guest for this one, Welcoming Katie Shescoe. back to the show. you haven't been on in a minute and it's been too long probably.
Speaker 2:I agree. It's always great to sit and chat with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i'm very excited to get into this one. People that maybe don't know you for whatever reason. you were on our last show talking about Nier Automata. We've interviewed you on this show, but I couldn't think of anybody better to bring on for the Tears of the Kingdom episode, i think almost as soon as I started playing it, i shot you a message and was like are you? down to do an episode whenever we beat this thing Because you probably have more hours than any definitely anybody I know in Breath of the Wild And I figured you were going to do the same for this one.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Yeah. I have probably more than I care to admit in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, And we talked about it obviously when we interviewed you. but if this is anybody's first episode, the reason you have so many hours in that game is because you stream and you like to do speed running stuff and bingos and a lot of Breath of the Wild content. So much of the Wild content.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i originally started just playing the game, fell in love with it definitely in my top three favorite games And I was just casually getting 100% over and over because, i don't know, it's just my game to chill and relax And I kind of stumbled down. I discovered bingos and kind of stumbled down that rabbit hole And then late last year I had someone convince me that doing the Breath of the Wild 100% speed run was a good idea. So that's kind of like my personal project for the years. I want to get on the speed running leaderboards for 100%.
Speaker 1:So I've kind of taken a detour.
Speaker 2:I've done one run. I'm doing the DLC, so it's a little bit longer. I think that run was about 50 hours but I definitely struggled with some of the trial of the swords. I lost a lot of time doing that. So I'm working on my second run but it's kind of taken a backseat to Tears of the Kingdom. But I'm starting to incorporate it back into my weekly stream, getting back into it And hopefully by the end of the year I'll actually like sit down over a weekend and do an official run. Right now I'm just kind of doing it a couple hours at a time, going through it.
Speaker 1:What is the time that you have to beat?
Speaker 2:I mean, there's not that many people that run it. So, like any, i think as long as it's under 60 hours, you're eligible for the board. I'd like to get it to about 30 hours, which is doable. I'm still deciding whether or not I want to run the DLC or if I just want to do base game. Right now I'm running the like. I'm incorporating the DLC into it, but we'll see, we'll see. I got six months, five months Wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, And then the other half of your content something that I always think is really cool to talk about is you play the flute.
Speaker 2:I do, yeah, i do covers of video game and anime music And I'm starting to do live performances at conventions. And, yeah, i'm incorporating the music streams back into my weekly rotation for streaming. So, yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's very cool, It's very unique, I think very interesting. So I always want to make sure we bring it up, but we'll give you a chance to plug all of that towards the end of the episode. For now, how about we talk about some Zelda?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1:So the way this episode is going to break down as far as spoilers are concerned is we're going to keep them to the back half of the conversation And we will have a very obvious spoiler warning, probably a break with some music or something from the game. So this first part of the conversation we're going to keep things a little bit more general, a little bit more broad, spoiler free, and then we'll dive into the spoiler stuff for the back half of the conversation, mostly regarding the story, maybe some of the like themed dungeons, stuff like that. That's cool to experience on your own for the first time. But we've already kind of talked about your history, with Breath of the Wild getting into it. But what about Zelda as a whole?
Speaker 2:Ooh, i got into it growing up, probably like middle school. I distinctly remember playing Wind Waker on the GameCube, loved the game. Game didn't love me. I got in like the final boss and it glitched And every time I die it would respawn you with like a heart and a half.
Speaker 1:You can't eat food in that game, and you?
Speaker 2:can't eat food in that game. So I was like, ok, i guess that's good enough. I eventually did play Wind Waker again when my sister moved in with me and she brought the GameCube or not the GameCube the Wii U, which I know people like to not like on the Wii U, but Wind Waker with the gamepad was so much better. It was so easy to like maneuver around the map anyway.
Speaker 1:Yes, really good remaster too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a really good remaster, so I eventually did beat it. It did glitch again, but we fixed it. So I love Wind Waker. Wind Waker doesn't love me.
Speaker 1:That's crazy.
Speaker 2:I played Twilight Princess on the Wii, which Twilight Princess was my favorite Zelda game prior to Breath of the Wild. So I love Twilight Princess. I played that, i think, in high school. No, i played that after I moved out And then when, like I said, my sister moved in with me for a couple years and she's like, well, you never did Ocarina of Time, so we're going to sit down and play Ocarina. So I played Ocarina of Time and then I played Majora's Mask and she like backsteed me through all of that. So, yeah, it started with Wind Waker. But I've just I've always loved the Zelda series. I loved the characters, i loved how. You know it's fun to discuss. Is there a timeline? Isn't there a timeline? How are they all related? Oh, i did play Skyward Sword. We're not going to get into it. Music is fantastic. Yes, story I liked the gameplay not so much, but I've played through Skyward Sword. I like I tend to 100 percent. So I have 100 percent at all of these games. I've done all the things, collected all the things. So, yeah, i just really love the Zelda series. The music is always fantastic, which for me is really important in a game. So it has good music. The characters. There's a familiarity, but they always do something a little bit different with every game. And that's what I really liked is like you have that familiarity. You know that there's going to be Link, you know there's going to be Zelda And you know you're going to be fighting Ganon and it's going to have like a fight and then like kind of a gimmick fight afterwards, and there's a predictability, but they always find a way to do something new with it. So, yeah, i just I love the series personally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, me too. I'm right there with you. I've probably mentioned my my history with the series a bunch on on the show, so I don't need to go too deep into it. But yeah, same same as you. same games Twilight Princess, wind Waker all those are very nostalgic for me. They were the ones that I played growing up. Wind Waker was like the one I probably replayed the most. I don't know, i had that, that replay ability to it, that sometimes games games seem a little bit too big or too daunting. It's like do I really want to replay that right now? But Wind Waker was always like the right size.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned music and you music is a very important part of like who you are. So it's not necessarily where I usually start these conversations, but I do think that that was something I noticed playing tears of the kingdom, when compared to Breath of the Wild, was there was more music like Breath of the Wild. They like intentionally muted things down. This had a lot more. At least I felt like it had a lot more overworld music, a lot more music while you were just doing random things. A lot more themes flowing in and out of gameplay. Did you notice that?
Speaker 2:I definitely noticed that and I think it worked. I always say that, like Breath of the Wild, music was perfect for Breath of the Wild. I don't think it would work in any other game. It intentionally made you feel isolated, because that's what you were, and now that the world is a lot more vibrant, a lot more alive, there's a lot more people floating about. You're seeing interactions between the different races, and people are picking up the pieces from the calamity and are doing new things. So there's more reason to have more music because there's more to the world now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good point. That's a really good point. I really enjoyed the music and some of it was just the fact that there was more to experience. But then specifically I think when I went to the Rideau village without going into too many spoilers of what's going on story-wise, you obviously know these things kind of follow a pattern, but all of the races are dealing with some sort of struggle that Link has to kind of go in and help them, and so while the Rideau were still in that struggle mode, it was kind of like this melancholy version of their theme that I just thought was really pretty.
Speaker 2:It was so good. Yeah, i really liked it. Yeah, i agree, definitely. And that's what I really like about the music in these games is that as the story evolves, the music tends to change a little bit And the music is used to tell the story. You first encounter them in the game and things aren't so great And the music reflects that. It's still the same theme. You can still hear the Rideau village theme underneath, but it's, like you said, a slightly more melancholy version. And then, obviously, as you fix things, you get back to the theme And I like that. It is still the same theme, a little bit like re-orchestration, but it's still the same theme. It's tying that familiarity in. So I really it's just great storytelling through music.
Speaker 1:How do you feel about the fact that these games don't have some musical instrument that Link actually possesses and uses?
Speaker 2:That's a little sad. Yeah, I think that's the one down side and not being able to pet a dog Still sad that we can't pet the dogs.
Speaker 1:I know you can feed them and guide them with food.
Speaker 2:You can't pet the dog, so I was really hoping we would have that in tears. We didn't get it. I think that's the one downside compared to the previous Zelda iterations is that Link in this one doesn't play instruments. But again, not to get into spoilers, we get to hear some more instrument playing. So I'm like, oh, yay, yeah.
Speaker 1:The reason it's called Tears of the Kingdom is because everybody's crying, because you can't pet the dog.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Sorry, spoilers. So I guess kind of the first big thing to maybe kick this off outside of music and we can just kind of go from here. But this game to me felt like mechanically it felt almost like Breath of the Wild was the prototype, if you will. And then this game they like turned it all the way up to 11 with the tool sets, with what you can do with the puzzles, with. I thought the shrines were a lot better, more like more interesting puzzles. I guess I really liked Ultra Hand and all the crafting and all the stuff you could do Ascend. Any game that doesn't have Ascend in it now is going to feel super clunky.
Speaker 2:That's such a good ability. I was a little skeptical with the Ascend. I knew it was going to be useful, obviously, but now that it's here, i'm like, ooh, they did some really interesting puzzles using the Ascend, and the Koroks use the Ascend too, and I'm just like, ooh, that's okay, i like this. I was a little skeptical, but I think they utilized it really well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you look at it in the lineup of all of the abilities that you have at your disposal, it seems very simple and almost like it is lacking compared to what some of the others can do. But there were so many times in Breath of the Wild where I would see somewhere I wanted to go and it's like well, i guess I'm going to eat a bunch of stuff, i'm going to eat a bunch of stamina food and I'm going to slowly climb up this wall and I'm going to get to where I'm going This one. There's probably a way you can just teleport through to get to the top almost instantly. There was one time I teleported basically through the entire world and it does it in real time, so you just kind of wait for Link to work his way back up, but it's so helpful And then when you pop up at the top, you have the option to say whoops, didn't mean to do this. You can actually go back down or you can jump out, which I thought was a really nice touch, because if you just popped right out and you were like, oh no, this is what I meant to do.
Speaker 2:That could have been a problem. That's been really helpful, because another thing that they introduced in the world is caves. It's not like introducing, but they've expanded the world a little bit more by utilizing a cave system, And sometimes in the caves there's multiple layers, so you would ascend to see if there's another second level to this cave. Or I could always tell, all right, yeah, I hit the second level, or it's going for a while. I'm like, nope, I'm going to the top of this mountain. Yeah, I really liked to be like no, I want to stay in the cave. I just thought, just exploring, that there was a second level. So, yeah, I really appreciated that for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that seems like one of the biggest things that a lot of other games are probably going to copy in the future, like the glider was and climbing was from Breath of the Wild, because I don't see a lot of games necessarily copying views and Ultra Hand and stuff. That's pretty specific and seems like it'd be pretty challenging. but ascend is one of those like quality of life things that people are going to be like. Oh, this feels like it's a little like it's missing something in a post-heres of the kingdom world? Yeah, when it comes to like Ultra Hand, did you get super crazy with it and very experimental with your crafting? because I'm much more brute force kind of guy. I'm the kind of guy that would just stick eight logs together end by end to just be able to slowly walk up a ramp I built to get to the thing I need to get to. I'm not building robots or anything crazy like that.
Speaker 2:I haven't done anything super, super crazy. Thank you for watching. I pretty much build what I need to get the job done. So if it just happens to be a really long bridge, then it's a really long bridge full of the things that just happen to be laying around. I did I Limcube did a video on like a little flying machine. It's like two fans with a control stick so that you can like get more vertical height and you can either go up or across. I think that's the craziest I've gone and that was more just like helping navigate the sky islands more than anything. I haven't really used it outside of that. So, no, i'm very utilitarian, just, oh, here's a puzzle I need to build something for. Okay, cool, let me build it and move on, but I'm not like trying to build like the robots and no, that's not me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it sounds like we're pretty similar there. I built a lot of like monstrosities and you know there's the guy holding the signs. Yeah, you have to help him keep the signs up. Some of the things that I threw together to keep that sign up looked absolutely ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, absolutely Absolutely. I liked that. I really like Addison. I like the little signs. They're fun little puzzles. I'm usually not great with like the 3D spatial awareness puzzles, but they've been really fun to like, try to figure out and like. sometimes they're like on a hillside, So like you only need like one thing. Other times they're like it's a little tiny point on a flat surface and you have to like build a contraption to keep it up. So it's. I really liked the addition of Addison. It's been fun.
Speaker 1:Did you find yourself using fuse?
Speaker 2:a lot, a lot, all the time For weapons, yeah, all the time. Like that's the only way to get good weapons honestly is by fusing, and I think I made some of the early bosses that I fought more difficult because I wasn't utilizing it as much. But once I started to realize that, like you're not going to find good weapons for the most part, that really to get those big damage numbers you have to fuse a good like a boss monster part to a weapon, so that's mostly what I use it for. I thought I would be utilizing, like doing the gems on weapons for like the fire and stuff, but I have one that I made forever ago and it's still going strong, so it's like I don't even need to do that very often. Like those weapons seem to last forever. Like I'm just now starting to break some weapons that I made earlier in my game, so I feel like the durability has greatly increased, especially when you're fusing monster parts to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i think fusing helps with the durability a lot. I did the same thing with the gems and there's a couple points where I was very glad I did, where having like a water staff was very, very helpful. Yes, and then the last kind of tool I guess that you get with, the last big one for puzzle solving is recall That one was a lot more situational, i feel like.
Speaker 2:Yeah Yeah, that's not one I utilize unless the situation calls for That's not true? I lied. There is a little trick that I started doing with the wings. So what I'll do is I'll like I'll use the Ultra Hand, i'll lift it up and push it out over the cliff a little bit, bring it back and then put it down, and then I'll use recall And then, as it's out over the cliff, i'll cancel the recall and then that way you can start gliding off the cliff with the wing, because otherwise you have to like put it on a sled, and that sometimes gets caught on things when you're just trying to get off the cliff and out. So, yeah, i started doing that a little bit, so I'm finding a little bit more uses for it, but they're still very situational, which I think is what it's really intended for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good idea. with the wings, i remember the first time I found like those gliders. I spent probably 30 to 45 minutes trying to figure out how to get this thing to because I didn't have any wheels to like go down this slope and take off and take me where I needed to go. So I tried probably three or four different contraptions. Ideas kept diving to my death kept and my four-year-old sitting there watching me asking why I keep dying And I'm like I don't know, i'm trying my best here And that was like early on in the game. But I like that about the game that it was the mechanics and stuff it introduced and the just stuff that it would leave around in the environment. You're kind of always thinking like what can I do with this? How can I get where I'm going in a either more efficient way or a faster way? There was a point where I had to get to the very top of like the Zoro domain And I just found a glider like that near some water. So I put some fans on it and a control stick and dropped it in the water. I was like I wonder if it'll take off from here, if it's just going to sink And when I got on, sure enough, it started skimming. The water went up in there. I just flew right to the top of the mountain, passing all the enemies and everything. This game is amazing.
Speaker 2:It's so good, yeah, and it's been fun to see what other people are doing in their games and like getting ideas. I had to buy two copies. I got my son a copy for his switch because his birthday was a couple days before the game came out, and that was the one thing he wanted for his birthday. I was like, all right, now I don't have to fight my own kid for game time. So we ended up getting two copies, so it's been really fun. He'll watch me play a little bit and then he'll go play and be like, hey, did you try this? So it's everyone I know. I know so many people who play Breath of the Wild who are obviously playing this. So it's been fun to be like, hey, how far did you get? Oh, i didn't think of trying that, let me try that when I get there. So it's just like the. This is what I missed about Breath of the Wild is the collaborative nature of so many new people playing it and so many different approaches to solving the same things. And my husband is playing it, but he still is just going and fighting Lionels. He just wants to go fight all the mini bosses And I think he's done a couple of dungeons And I don't even know if he'll finish it. But that's all he really cared about me. I'm doing all the things. I'm going to get all the Koroks, i'm going to do all the signs, i'm going to get all the side quests, because I have to, and all the shrines and all the caves and all of that stuff. And the other people are like, yeah, i just want to see what the game has And I'll pick up a couple of side quests, and then you have the people who are making Korok torture devices. Yeah. That's always one to grace my Twitter feed. And then you have the people who are making robots. And how can I make a bigger and better robot to kill this one little bit cobblin in the middle of a field?
Speaker 1:Exactly, yeah, and so many games? not so many. But there are those big games that come out where it's like a lot of people are playing them at the same time. I think of Elden Ring and you can do things in a different way. But there's only so much you could do differently in Elden Ring You could discover things at a different rate or at different times or maybe in a slightly different order, but this game you can do completely different. Like Joe, who's been on the show a few times, he went a completely different route than I did. Starting the game. I started in Gerudo and I think I didn't ever go to like Hacariko Village until I was probably 60-something hours into my game.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And he went there almost immediately. And it's just very few games. Can you be that different in how you play and approach even just the structure of the game, let alone how you solve the puzzles, how you do combat, what things you choose to build, what outfits and gear and stuff you choose to wear? do you engage with cooking? There's just so much there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's what makes this game really great And same with Breath of the Wild. It was truly open world. You can do anything in any order. You can choose not to do stuff. You can just like if you just wanted to run around and fight things, then cool, do that. And it's like finding the different weapons And now it's like combining the different weapons and like the different cooking like they've added more ingredients to stuff, so like you have even more options for cooking, and it's just. There's not very many games like that And I'm loving it. It's just it's great. Like I said, i love the collaborative nature of just seeing everyone's very different approaches to playing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So along with the kind of expanded tool set or slightly different tool set and way that interacts with the world, that Link gets to use in this game it's the same map, which I feel is understating it when people just say, oh yeah, it reuses the map from Breath of the Wild because there's the sky, there's Hyrule, there's the underground, but Hyrule I still was like, was this, like this in the first game? And you probably didn't have this as much because you have like a million hours in Breath of the Wild So you're probably a bit more familiar with the map, but for me I was like I don't remember this, or I don't remember this being here. I don't remember this looking like this, and so even Hyrule didn't feel like a one to one copy.
Speaker 2:It really wasn't. I mean a lot of like. The major landmarks are very similar, like the dueling peaks, like you have, the two mountains Yeah, that's the same. Kakariko's in the same spot, Like you have, you know, Rideau Village is in the same spot, Like the general big things are all the same, but they definitely added some new elements. Some things have been moved, like some of the stables aren't necessarily the same. Some of them have been moved. They've added some new landmarks, Like there's like there's like I said, I like it because there's a familiarity. It's nice to go back and be like I remember there was something here last time. Is there still something here? And what has changed? So yeah, there's definitely some some noticeable differences, which is fun to explore. It's like I remember this, but no, this is, they did something a little bit different here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i loved that about exploring Hyrule, about having kind of, for me, a little bit more foggy memory of where, how it was before, and then seeing because the world changed, because, like we touched on earlier, the world changed because time has passed, people are rebuilding, they're getting on with their lives, but also like stuff went up into the sky and stuff fell from the sky And so there's also a bit of disaster in this world again. But I also really enjoyed, from like a story and character perspective, like revisiting all these places and seeing where the people from Breath of the Wild were now and what was happening in these villages and what was happening with the characters that you helped the first time around. And that that was one of my favorite things, probably story-wise was going back and like revisiting all the people and places from the first game.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's been so much fun because it's fun to see their reactions, because, obviously, without getting too deep into the story, but, like you know, stuff goes down. So when they see you they're like, oh wow, like you're here, cool, like can you help me. It's like it's great that you're alive, but also I'm having a bit of a problem. Yes, exactly, so it's been really fun to like, see, like everyone's reactions, because you know, some of the characters haven't seen Link in a while, not because of like the story, but because, like the time gap between, obviously, breath of the Wild and Tyr. So it's just like, oh, wow, it's been a while since I've seen you. How have you been? Oh, i guess Zelda's missing, so what's going on with that? Also, i have this, can you help me? So it's I really like that, it's, it's fun. It's just it's fun storytelling and it's fun to see everyone's reactions and it's fun to see what they've been up to since we last saw them.
Speaker 1:How did you feel about the sky stuff?
Speaker 2:I haven't really fully explored it. Personally, i feel like it's a little bare. I feel like they could have done a little bit more with it, other than the Great Skyland. Obviously there's a lot on that, but that's like the tutorial area, so of course it's going to have a lot. I feel like they probably could have done a little bit more with it, had a little bit more to explore. I like what they did with the labyrinths, where it's like all the levels, which is really cool, but other than that, i feel like it was a little bit bare, but thankfully it's not as big. Obviously it covers the map, but it's not the same square footage of the ground, so I feel like they could have done a little bit more with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i feel like I totally get what you're saying. I think that that just going up and exploring and bouncing from island to island and stuff feels a little bit like oh, there's some neat things up here but it's not, i guess, anything too mind-blowing. But I did think that basically everything story or main dungeon related that happened in the sky was incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was great What they did with that. Yeah, like you said, the story-wise, the main dungeon, that was all great. I think they utilized that very well. But the random little islands just didn't leave a whole lot to explore. So it's just like, well, i'm going to come here because I know there's a shrine and I'm going to get the shrine and cool puzzle, but I'm on this little random rock island and there's nothing here, so I didn't really need to come here. So I think that's my only criticism. At least, with the sky, the story beats fantastic. The general exploration not really needed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we mentioned, i mentioned there's an underground and it's not something that's really talked about in a lot of promotional stuff, and so if you want to go into that completely blind, i'll have time stamps and you can skip ahead. But I'm going to ask now what did you think of the underground?
Speaker 2:Oh, it was so spooky and I loved it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i didn't know about it. Going into the game I hadn't been spoiled on it at all, and so the first time they told me to go down there I had no idea that it was going to be the entire map. Again, basically I thought maybe it would be kind of like the sky, maybe a few little holes here and there that were kind of locked off and secluded, which some of them are to a certain point. I don't think you can go from end to end. But yeah, it was very spooky. I like what they did with the light and the music. Again, the music helped a lot down there make it spooky, and then those freaking hand monsters. It really added a lot of tension.
Speaker 2:That gloom, hand scared. I don't even think I first encountered it underground. I encountered it in a cave and it scared the crap out of me because I was just exploring and all of a sudden things got dark and I'm getting attacked. I'm like what is going on right now? And then I finally beat it and the thing that I don't want to spoil it, but the thing that pops out afterwards I was just like they did what? What is this? I mean I like Slyvamaj, but I was just like, and then I had my butt handed to me. She's like okay, we're not doing this again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they reminded me there were hands like that. There have been hands like that in past games, but I remember there were some in Wind Waker I think it was the temple that you did where you're moving the mirrors and the lights and stuff around and those hands would come out of the ground and grab you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Yeah, they're kind of like the homage to the dead hands in OOT. That's what I was thinking too. Yeah, that too. So, yeah, i definitely felt more throwbacks to the older games and all of the armor that was kind of hard to get in the Amiibo and Breath of the Wild are now you can just find it, which is really cool. It's fun to see all of the old armor from previous games and you can run around as Twilight Princess Link if you really wanted to, and that's fun. So, yeah, the underground was just like it's dark, it's scary. things are a little bit spookier and hit a little bit harder and I like it. But I mean, i love that aesthetic. I mean I have Halloween decorations up here around in my house, so, like anything like dark and spooky, i'm like, oh yes, i'm here for this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then the kind of the twist to it was that the enemies down there, anytime you touch the gloom or the enemies that had it on them, it would like permanently remove your hearts until you either ate something that would bring those hearts back or you would get to essentially the map markers for underground and they would send out a really bright light for that area and then it would fix your hearts. It wouldn't refill them, it would repair them and then you had to refill them with food or whatever you had. So that was an interesting kind of risk and reward mechanic of like how much should. I really want to explore and poke around before I get to the next kind of safe spot, because I'm losing hearts here if I'm getting hit. So I thought that all of that kind of work together to make me kind of always on edge and always pushing forward to the next goal and not really trying to dilly-dally too much when I was underground.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i really liked it. It was. you definitely felt a little bit of that sense of urgency, but you're also like I want to explore, like what if there's something good down here? and there's a couple of like really good things that you find down there? So it's like, well, i want to explore it. but I'm also I only have eight hearts and four of them are no, i can't refill. So it's like do I just go to the service and heal, maybe make some food, or do I like can I think I can get to the next checkpoint and get that refilled? and definitely keeps you on your toes And I like that. it's fun, because there's not been anything quite like that in any game that I've played.
Speaker 1:No, I mean not with the risk and reward, necessarily. I do think it's interesting that both Elden Ring and Tears of the Kingdom both had kind of like surprise underground sections that were like big moments. That's like, were these guys talking to each other? What happened?
Speaker 2:I definitely think that. I mean, i don't know where Tears was in its development when Elden Ring came out. My theory is Tears came out later because I didn't want to compete with Elden Ring for Game of the Year. That's why we got it this year, not last year. That's my conspiracy theory. So I don't know where they were in development. But you can definitely, having played both, you can see that they kind of played off of each other. It seemed like Elden Ring definitely took some ideas from Breath of the Wild previously And again it seems like Tears took some elements from Elden Ring as well. And I mean cool, awesome. Everyone really liked the underground reveal in Elden Ring. I think Elden Ring did it a little bit better. But I think, no, chron is stunningly like, visually just stunning. I loved it. I just I want that painted. I want that color palette for my walls. It was just stunning. So I think they did it a little bit better. But Tears definitely had that surprise element of like oh no, there's this whole world's underground and it has its own ecosystem And you're seeing the same enemies, but they hit a little bit harder Now that when they hit you, like you said, you're losing your hearts until you can fix it. So it just had that like oh crap. Moment, which is just I love stuff like that. It's so good. This is why I play video games.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, this is one of those like just extra special video games that reminds you kind of like the highs that games can hit sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So the way this the game looks pretty much like Breath of the Wild. They didn't change too much here, which I think Breath of the Wild looks great. I think it's a good art style. I think I'm not tired of it yet. I think it really helps the game that is doing so much run on the Switch that it's getting pretty old at this point. I think the game ran remarkably well. I had a few there are a few areas where I noticed like slow down, but for the most part I was pretty impressed with how well this game ran, especially with all the stuff it was letting you stick together and experiment with and Oh yeah, especially because, like you know, it takes a lot to develop, for I think you can stick 100 things together, i think, or 99 is the max amount of things that you can stick together.
Speaker 2:If I were, i haven't tried to reach that limit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's just kind of what I've read. I think it's mostly people trying to collect as many Koroks as they can to do very mean things to them. But, like you know, the game is accounting for all of that. It has to account for, like the weird things that people are putting together that like I don't know. obviously it's intended, but like you don't know, but someone else is going to come up with if you're not thinking in that respect. So yeah, i haven't had any issues with it running. I like the art style. I think it works for this game. I think it looks really good. But then again, like I said, i mostly play Nintendo. like Switch is my main, is my only console. I have a PC but I don't play many games outside of like the Nintendo ecosystem. And when I do, like I don't know, i'm not really a graphics snob. Like does the graph? like does the look fit the game Cool, does it run? well? Great, i'm pretty easy to keep happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think a good art style will age better than you know high end graphics, because that's always getting better. So that's why Wind Waker still looks amazing, because they went for a art style, an art direction rather than you know. That's probably why Twilight Princess arguably might age. The worst is because they were going for a bit more of that realism. But yeah. So we can kind of tie these two points together as we head towards spoilers here in a minute, But just generally in keeping it kind of broad and spoiler free. Like one of the complaints about Breath of the Wild was that some people didn't like the Divine Beast as much as like the dungeons of the older games. So kind of what did you think about what? how they addressed that, the changes they did to the dungeons in this game, and then any general thoughts on like the story overall, before we put a hard dividing line in this conversation and go freely with our thoughts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i think they addressed it a little bit, but probably not enough for most people whose complaints were that the like the Divine Beasts were the Divine Beasts And not the dungeons that we, that people, have grown accustomed to in previous 3D Zelda's. So I think they like moved the needle in the direction of it being closer, but it's still very much like Divine Beast-esque, like you're still going in, you're still like activating terminals, essentially, and then you're fighting a boss. But you know they I don't want to spoil it, but like they moved we'll talk about, i'm sure we'll talk about when we get to the spoiler section but they moved the needle a little bit, but it's still very much. If you're like I missed traditional 3D Zelda dungeons, you're not getting it in this game And I'm okay with that, but you know that's what you're looking for. You're not getting it.
Speaker 1:I agree, and I think the direction that they moved the needle in that regard is more like thematically, like each dungeon has its own theme now feels a little bit more based around its region. And then I thought that the ways in which because you're right, like the core dungeon still functions essentially the same, because you know in the old games you would go halfway through with small keys and stuff And then you'd fight a mini boss to get the item you needed to do the back half of the dungeon, then you'd fight the main boss. Well, you can't really do that when they give you all of your tools at the beginning of the game.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I thought the way they expanded like what was around the dungeon or how you got to the dungeon kind of added a little bit more of that free flowing puzzle solving And then it felt like I was in the dungeon and doing dungeon activities before I got to like the core part where they're like, okay, now go turn on the terminals or whatever. So I thought that they did a good job of flavoring, but at its core, yeah, it's not not really that different, but I do think that the bosses were much better.
Speaker 2:I do like the bosses. Yeah, the bosses definitely fit the theme of the dungeons. You definitely, i guess I got some of those homages to previous Zelda games, which is really like it's nice when, like, they take something that you've seen before but they like rework it So it's new, but you're like I see the inspiration for it, so I really liked that. But, yeah, i completely agree, it's. There was a little bit more lead up to the actual dungeon itself, but I think, again, i don't mind that And I think that's what you need if you want a truly open world game.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You can't really have things progressive And it's still be open world. Like if it's open worlds then you know, some person might do that first, immediately after getting out, like getting off the tutorial, And some people might do it 60 hours in when they have a bunch of experience and have a bunch of good weapons. So like you kind of have to balance for that in some respects. And yeah, I'm sure some people can argue that like yeah, you could still do it And you're right, they move the needle a little bit closer to it. But I really liked it. I like what they did, but I didn't. That wasn't one of my complaints of the game, So Right.
Speaker 1:And what did you think about the story? just kind of overall.
Speaker 2:I really liked the story. It was a good story, i think kind of the lead up to the final boss was really good. There was kind of a twist to it which I really liked. And then like the final, like gimmick boss best of the Zelda series, my favorite, absolutely loved it. I'm so glad it wasn't spoiled for me because it was like, getting to that moment, i'm just like, oh, we're going there. Oh, yes, like this is everything I wanted. It's like everything I didn't know I needed in my life. I was just like, okay, this was. I was like I don't know how they're ever going to talk this, because this is just too good. So I really I really liked it. I liked the story. I liked that it seemed like the NPCs were a little bit more invested in the story to, which was really nice. I think that's a nice little divergence from previous Zelda games Because I just like more NPCs were like saying, oh my gosh, like what happened to Zelda? Are you looking for her? Like what you know is what can we do? Like how can we find Zelda? What else is going on? Whereas, like previous games, it's just like some of them are like didn't even know Zelda was missing, so like. So I really liked that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it felt well. For one, it felt like a sequel, because it felt like all these people are kind of aware of who you are and who Zelda is and all that. It wasn't like Link's origin story, like so many of the older games, which is nice, but yeah, then just the, the NPCs in general around the world, but then also just like the, the core cast of characters that you interact with and that are helping you. I felt like we're more involved and more included this time around. And I didn't I didn't really love the kind of lead up to the final boss like playing it, but I thought like thematically and what was happening was super cool, i was playing it. I was like man, this is a lot, but but I really I liked what they were going for as far as, like, the story and the characters were going were concerned.
Speaker 2:Yeah So.
Speaker 1:I think that's probably good for spoiler free. We will take a quick break here, listen to some Zelda music more than likely And then when we come back it will be spoilers for Tears of the Kingdom. A people put some of Katie's Zelda music in there.
Speaker 2:I did cover the tears theme, so All right, we are back.
Speaker 1:full spoilers. There's a lot to talk about here. So much to talk. I don't know, i don't know how we're going to get to all of it. But I mean, would you rather I guess I don't know, it's all kind of intermingled. I was going to say, would you rather kind of touch on like gameplay stuff, or would you rather kind of touch on story stuff? Because I was thinking like in my head, asking that question specifically about how they, they changed. You don't just get abilities now, you have like the characters or like the spirits of the characters running around with you, but that's that's like story and gameplay, so it's all kind of like intermingled. Where do you want to start? Where would you kick this off?
Speaker 2:I think that's probably a good place to start is like not only do you get the abilities, but like you get little ghost versions of the champions or, i guess, the sages running around And let me tell you, Tulan has saved my butt on more than one occasion, like getting that, getting that crit hit. Yes, So I was not expecting it. So that was like a nice little surprise, Like I was. I was like there's going to be an ability, I'm going to get an ability, But I was not expecting like help, like having little characters running around. So I like it and I don't Like. It definitely feels more collaborative. It fits with tiers where things are like more we're all in this together, But also sometimes they just get in the way and I'm just like I don't want to like dismiss you, because I do want to use you in like two seconds, but like just get out of the way, because I really just want you, nobo, to knock down this rock, this rock wall. And I don't need read you send out an electrical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was my thing was like how many times that I accidentally charged the electricity when I was trying to like pick something up or whatever, and it was like, okay, yeah, but I did, i did Gerudo first. For some reason I went that direction and so that was the start of the story for me, which is a little bit odd. I mean, you obviously it's designed to be kind of told in any direction, but I would tell anybody to go to the Rideau Village first.
Speaker 2:That's what I did.
Speaker 1:Because, like you mentioned, getting the crit and combat, but for navigation, for exploration, having that gust so helpful, so good.
Speaker 2:It's so helpful I thought I would like. I sometimes miss Ravalli's Gale with the vertical but, like I also find when I'm going back to Breath of the Wild that I like I'm trying to go forward like oh, that's wrong game.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and well, there's so many more ways to go vertical in tiers now, like you can find a rock and shoot yourself up into space, or a fan or a rocket or anything like that, and you know. So that stuff can help you go horizontal as well. But that little gust saved me so many times when I was like platforming or trying to glide from one little spot to another. Yeah, so I thought I thought the Sage is really cool And I guess kind of tying into that. So this game, in the first game you're kind of assisting the memories of the champions, or not the memories, like the spirits of the champions, and then they kind of become one with the divine beasts and all that, but they're still from the past. In this game you're helping people in your own timeline, but that doesn't mean there's not a second timeline, because Zelda ends up getting sent back to the past and becoming the Sage of Time in that time period where apparently the world as we know it today came from the elder race of goat people. Yeah, hooking up with the Hylians, which is, you know, that is what it is.
Speaker 2:But we're not going to think about that too much, we're just going to roll with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, yeah, it is what it is. But I, you know, aside from that, i thought that for one thing, i thought they did the memories a lot better in this game as far as being able to find them without basically having to look them up or just exploring every square inch of the map. And then I thought that the story it told was super interesting, the way it all tied together. I was I don't want to say more invested in the story because I thought Breath of the Wild had like a good mystery to it. But you kind of knew, like you knew exactly what had happened before Link went down. Maybe not specifically, but you had an idea of what went, what happened before he was out. And now you know that ultimately you have to go fight Ganon. You know where he is, you know what he's doing. This game I was like I really don't know where we're going with this. Like, yeah, it's, it's kind of there's a lot more unknowns And I guess in this game you can still theoretically just go straight to Ganon and fight him if you want to, but it's not presented to you that way, it's not presented as an obvious option like it in the first game. There's the castle, it's right there, if you want to go knock yourself out, but in this game it felt much more like no, you need to go on the journey first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i really I definitely enjoyed the journey because you know it got you to look out landing. You got to meet Pura like you know Pura's life goals, and then it, you know it like sent you to the depths and there's like, well, guess what, there's a new Sage. So like, go find this new Sage. And it's like you go to the castle and you think, like that's what I did. I was like, okay, i'm going to the castle, i'm going to, i'm going to beat the game tonight. And then you realize he's not there. You guys do more stuff And I was like I'm beating it tomorrow. Well, played, well played. I think I ended up beating it like the next day, which I liked that. That was a twist, because you expect, like that's how all the Zelda's were. You went to the castle, you defeated Ganon in the end, but no, it's just like he's not there. You got to, you got to figure out where he's at And like once you think about it, you're like, okay, that's obvious where he's at, but the journey it took you on to get there, i was just like I really liked it. There was like an element like a mystery game, like you were trying to piece the puzzle, put the puzzle pieces together of like where is he, what is going on, what's the end goal? And it's just, it was fun, it was fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i loved the journey. I think that probably my least favorite part was that, like final sage, that was underground, that became a mech. I was like I mean this, i had fun with the mech, the gameplay was kind of fun. But at that point I, like you was, i thought that I was going to have beaten it at that point And it was like, oh no, we're doing all this here. So maybe that was it And I was just trying to see that how it ended. But also I was, i guess, a little it shouldn't have really thrown me for a loop based on all the like technology and stuff we'd been doing up to that point. But then the fact that she got put into a mech and then you're like controlling the mech and is like, oh okay, we're doing this, But the other four I loved, i think that. So I did Gerudo Rideau and then I did the why can't I think of the water people's names?
Speaker 2:Zora.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i did the Zora And then I the last ones I did were the Gorons, which I don't know if that's how I'd recommend people do it, but for some reason I don't know if I just wanted to be different from how I did it in Breath of the Wild or what but, i, was like I'm just going to go this way, So I had the electric power which helped a lot in combat, but it was that boss was really tough early on in the game So that was a bit rough. But anyways, i think that the Zoras I feel like Sidon kind of got the weakest story in my opinion, like his stuff felt like the least fleshed out and the least, i don't know, impactful It was still. I still really liked the dungeon.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I felt like his character stuff wasn't as strong as the others.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i could see that. Yeah, i agree, the dungeon was pretty cool. I kind of liked some of the anti-gravity and traveling around in the bubble. Those yeah, that was fun, it was interesting.
Speaker 1:When I got off of that dungeon and Link was just hopping again, I was like man, I really missed those slow, long jumps like you're on the moon. Yeah, I thought that was cool.
Speaker 2:So good, but yeah, i definitely think that story was probably the weakest out of all of them.
Speaker 1:But, like we were talking about earlier in the spoiler-free section, that we were dancing around. So the dungeons are all kind of themed now around their region and around their characters. So you have, like the Zora is all about the water has been polluted. You have to figure out what's causing it. It's coming from the sky, because everything is coming from the sky right now. And then, yeah, you get up there and it's like ultimately, yeah, the actual core dungeon is just you're kind of solving some puzzles, you're flipping some switches and then you're fighting a boss which was such a weird boss.
Speaker 2:It's such a weird. I looked at it and I was just like what I'm like, what are we doing?
Speaker 1:But then you get to it and it's like, oh, but also you have like bubbles you can travel through and it's kind of like way less gravity up here, and so just it was like every dungeon had that little twist to it that just made it so much more fun, in my opinion. I thought that the Rideau was incredible. The ship stuff and flying up through the air and jumping on the like trampolines Oh god.
Speaker 2:I loved it. That was just. I was like, oh, this is like kid heart right here, exactly Like just who doesn't want to jump on a giant trampoline and go flying hundreds of feet in the air and landing on the next giant trampoline? Like that's just. It was so much fun. I think the lead up to it was a little bit long. I could have done with a little less with the jumping, but it was just, it was so much fun And it's just like a giant boat in the sky, like I felt like sand ship from Skyward Sword. Again, it's like that little nod like if you know, you know, and I like that you needed the champion to unlock the, to unlock the terminals, so like that's where I was kind of alluding to, like the homage to previous one where, like, you needed a tool to solve the puzzles, but like, it's still very much like okay, well, i have the tool, i'm coming into the dungeon with the tool to unlock it, but so, like it moved the needle but it's still very much like Divine Beast ask. But the little tweaks that they made to every dungeon was nice And, like you said, it definitely touched more on the individuality of each of the regions.
Speaker 1:CB. Yeah, so we, you have the tool like you mentioned. But the tool is a character which kind of reminded me again of those like Wind Waker dungeons that you did, where you had to bring the sage in with you so that they could like fulfill their duty, and they had like a. They had a gimmick or a mechanic that would help get you through the, through the dungeon. But yeah, just bouncing your way up into that storm and then there at the top is just like a giant pirate ship was like. This is the most kind of. This is the fun side of Zelda. This is like the whimsical silly like does this really make sense? Not really, but we believe it in this world and it's cool. Yeah, and then the boss at the end was like, thank God they're doing like puzzle fights, like puzzle boss fights again. they're big, they're grand, this is like a giant flying scorpion thing, serpent. And it was like this is Zilta, this is and this is completely different from the one I just did in the Gerudo Valley. So it's like I thought that the dungeons were a pretty significant step up in quality and diversity, even if the like the core element of once you're in the dungeon is still finding the like five switches. I thought all the stuff they did around it was was much better.
Speaker 2:I agree, i completely agree. It definitely fits the story and it throws throws back to the previous games a little bit more. And, yeah, i definitely a step up from Breath of the Wild as far as that goes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so obviously there's. There's the ending stuff we're going to talk about, but was there any other maybe, like smaller story moments or things that happened in your playthrough that you wanted, that you want to mention or talk about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, i really like how the race I touched on this in the spoiler how the races are interacting more, so like by Tabantha Bridge there's a Goron and a Rito building a minigame And I'm like that's just so cute And it's like just showing that like the world is now coming together And like everyone's interacting more. I mean, like in Breath of the Wild, like yeah, you saw a random Gerudo in Goron City and like you know, there'd be like one NPC in the city, because they're like I'm a traveler and I'm like exploring, but like this is like the races coming together to actually work And like you go to look out landing and like you see some of the Zora training there like fighting, and I just I really liked that. It just made the world feel so much more connected.
Speaker 1:I thought kind of going off that a little bit. I guess the was it in Hatino Village where there was like the mayor competition, like those kind of things I just I thought were so like that's the kind of stuff that you absolutely don't have to do. There's no reason to do that outside of just that it's. It's just like peak Zelda content. It's just the silly stuff in the world where there's like this crazy fashionista who moved into this village and is changing the identity and the people who live there forever don't like it And all of her fashion has to do with like wearing mushrooms on your head.
Speaker 2:It's just so weird And it's like this wouldn't work in any other game. But it works in a Zelda game where, like, of course, some weird lady rolls into town making mushroom fashion and wants to, like, become the mayor of the town And of course the mayor, who's been there forever, is just like no, we should, we should bring back cheese. Like, why are we making more cheese?
Speaker 1:It's just like, yeah, and then the, the, the fashion lady, is sneaking off in the middle of the night to eat vegetables. She loves the simpler things in life. And it's like, man, i see where this is going, but I was still. I loved every second of it. And then when they finally get up there and you know they, they ultimately, ultimately decide to work together for the good of the village. I was like, yeah, man, we did it. We, you know, i had that proud moment, even though it was so silly and so cheesy. Did you? obviously, you probably did you play more of this game than me. Did you? do the the like the beach village that you rebuild after they're attacked by the policy.
Speaker 2:I actually did that pretty early. Yeah, same here And probably struggled more than I needed to while doing it. I'm pretty sure it was after I had already done Rito, because I had Tulin, because Tulin definitely helped me a bit with that, but it was still pretty early on. That was really cute. I liked that. It's just like oh yeah, a giant pirate ship, like village destroyed And, of course, like the guy that built your house and Breath of the Wild is now here and he's going to rebuild everything. Like okay, rebuilding. It was a little rough, i don't know if maybe I just didn't quite have the coordination with Ultra Hand, but like getting those tree branches and like I struggled a lot to do that, like getting the tree branches in the middle of the houses, but I really liked it was just like a cute little storyline. And then like the I don't know if you did like the water race, but they're like how do we get more people to come here? Well, go back to Terry Town and they're building like vehicles, like why don't we have like a boat race? And you can like come build a boat and race a boat. And it's just like again bridging the gap between Terry Town and Lerlin, which like didn't have people that interacted at all. And now, like you're doing stuff in Terry Town and they're moving it to Lerlin to like stimulate Lerlin's economy, Like it's it's just again silly, but it's so, zelda, and it just like just added more character to the world. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's silly, but it still has so much like heart and so much charm that it works. And I didn't do the boat one because so I think I've probably played about 70 or 80 hours. Okay, because I've done all four of the main regions And I don't think I think I had the quest to like find the final sage. And then I realized that Final Fantasy 16 was coming out in like a week And I was like I really want to see how this ends before that game comes out because I don't want to get pulled away. So I definitely I have plans to go back to tears of the kingdom and do more of like side stuff and things like that that I haven't done yet, because I didn't. I didn't finish the underground, which was something that I wanted to mention because we talked a bunch about like how there's some tension and it's a little spooky and all that. But what do you find down there? You find like this weird Mad Max-esque stuff going on with the Yiga clan.
Speaker 2:And it's just it's over the top silly and the music is amazing and hilarious And it's just like so funny And like I did that one pretty early where I like I dropped down and started doing Master Koga and that fight took me forever because I had like like six and seven hit attack weapons They were, so I had such bad weapons. But it was just it was silly And I liked that they did more with the Yiga clan. Like they have little bases on, like on the surface, and like you get you get like the Yiga armor, you can dress in like full Yiga And then like you, like you can get a shrine by doing that And like you have like there's certain things that you have to get that for And I'm just like I love that they did more with this. It was, it was cute, it was silly and all the way that the Yiga clan can be silly And it I was just like I love this edition. It was well done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love that it makes sense in their underground, because Link kicked him down that pit in the first game, so they've been down there ever since.
Speaker 2:It's just like, yeah, you thought he was gone because it was a bottomless pit, But guess what? It wasn't a bottomless pit. Yeah, they've just been scheming this entire time and building little bases with, like the schematics that you get are like a little nonsensical, like they're so extra, and I'm like I'm never going to utilize this, but I still want to get it because like it's just so extra, like I don't know, maybe I will build that raft with like little lasers on Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, for sure. Is there anything else you want to you want to mention, or do you think it's a good time to dive into this crazy ending?
Speaker 2:I think the only thing that I don't love is in the depths. You can fight all the bosses again, and there's three versions of them in the depths of each one And I'm just like, did we need this? I don't like maybe one, like yeah, it's a scourge of the depths. We had one above, now we have one below. I don't think we needed three of each in the depths And I that felt like a little bit of overcombing. I'm just like I'm going to do it because I want the defeated, but I don't think. I don't think this was needed, but it was like fun to like stumble upon it. I'm like, wait, i know this music. Wait, whoa, whoa. Oh, there's Colgarra again. I guess we're doing this now, which I'm fine, because that song is a banger.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean this is probably a game you could do an entire run of a podcast on and still not touch everything, because there's so many like there's all the quests that you do for the, for the gazebo gazette, and you can find Zelda's golden horse, and there's just so many little things in the world.
Speaker 2:So many. So I'm still like trying to find stuff, like there's still some things that I haven't come out Like. I think I was about you. I was about 70 hours between like to defeat it And I think I did all of the dungeons. I think I ended up with about 250 Koroks that I just like I did them as I encountered them. I wasn't like necessarily looking where. I'm like Oh yeah, i remember that there was a Korok here in Breath of the Wild. I'm running past it, let me just see if there's something here. And I think I only ended up with like 39 side quests out of like 139. I'm like, wow, i thought I did way more side quests, but nope, i guess, guess not. I missed a lot And I ended up with I think 45% of the map done. So and like all the, i did quite a few shrines. I had all my stamina upgraded, because that's always the first thing, i get a couple hearts But then I go for the full stamina. So like 70 hours I was about 45% map completion. So I was like that seems about right for just like playing and not really looking things up, just encountering things And as I come across them I'll do them, and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you mentioned stamina, which this can kind of lead into the ending. But in the first game to get the Master Sword you had to have X amount of hearts. So I was pumping my hearts up. I think I maybe had like an extra quarter, maybe an extra like half ring of stamina, but everything else was hearts. So I discovered the hidden forest, the lost woods, before I had gotten all the memories and stuff that would tell me about Zelda and the sword and all that. And so I was like, well, i'm diving down in this, well, i'm going to figure out, i'm going to save these trees. I go down there, i use a bunch of bomb arrows, i kill the things down there, and then I get the sword put on my map and I realize it's flying around in the sky. That's weird. So eventually, get up to the sky, realize it's on a dragon, i'm like that's pretty cool. Get to the dragon, realize that it's not hearts this time, it's stamina to pull this thing out, and I'm like, well, shit. So then I go and I remembered that there was one of those statues that could, like convert your hearts to stamina and vice versa, but it wasn't where it was in the first game. So I looked it up to find out where it was And I'm like, okay. So I went down there, unlock that and swapped out some of my stuff so I could get the master sword. But yeah, so that kind of leads into the ending, because the way the story is given to you and the memories it tells the story of what Zelda was doing in the past, and then obviously Link is piecing together kind of what's happening in the present And you're also seeing this, what you find out to be an imposter, zelda, walking around kind of causing mischief, like not really doing anything super diabolical, just kind of being a little pain. And so, ultimately, you find out that in order to come back to the present and to strengthen the master sword enough to be able to kill who they still haven't like acknowledged well, i guess they've said it's a, you know, it's Ganondorf. In the past, you see him just straight up as the man he was before he gets his power. But In order to defeat him in the present, the sword needs to be charged more. So she turns herself into a dragon by eating her secret stone, which we haven't really touched on that All the sages have these secret stones that give them their abilities that they can do. So she finds out that if she eats her, she'll turn into a dragon, and dragons are immortal And I'm like this is so crazy.
Speaker 2:It was wild. I was just like, oh, oh, I was not expecting you No, me neither. So I was just like that's a nice twist, because you're watching these memories and you're like, how are we going to rescue her? How is this going to happen? And then you realize that she is a dragon that you've been seeing floating around. You're like, oh, she's been here the whole time and she's had the masters for this whole time. Oh, ok, ok, i guess this is happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So then you get the sword unless you're like me, where you got it halfway through the game just by happenstance And then you go. You know, if you've been playing the game I don't want to say correctly, but if you've been playing the game as like they intend you to play it, you will at this point have all the sages And you go down into the depths where you find Ganondorf And this is the part that I was talking about, that I didn't necessarily love, because it's like it's just a gauntlet to get to. I'm like you. You lose all of your friends at a certain point, which, if you're like me, you've been using them for the whole game. You're like, oh crap, how do I play this game without, without my friends? And so which? then, like I said, i liked what they did thematically and story wise, because that allows them. You lose their spirits, but then that allows the real characters to come to your aid at a certain point, when you and you fight, you fight basically a small army down there. You fight waves of progressively stronger enemies, and I'm glad that there's a checkpoint or a save point there, because I died to Ganondorf. The first time I fought him I just could not get my. I just could not get my like I was trying to parry him and I'm terrible at parrying in this game But then I was having, for some reason, I just could not get my like backflip timing and stuff right to be able to do the flurries. Then the second time I went in I, like you know, I sat up straight and I leaned forward and I got assumed to the gamer position and actually took it seriously. But but yeah, so then you go through and you end up, like you said, you fight him for real and then you do the gimmick fight. But what did you think about that whole lead up to the boss fight?
Speaker 2:I think it like it was a. it was a bit of a gauntlet and I had the flashbacks to Skyward Sword, where you're going down the spiral and you're fighting more and more enemies. So I think that was again kind of an homage to that And I like that. you know, everyone came in to help again because it just felt like it was bringing the world together and they're always just like yeah, like we're by your side and like every other game, like no, no one's by your side, it's literally just you. But here, like they're actually like no, we're literally here by your side fighting. So I really liked that. it was a really nice touch. So I didn't mind it. And, like I said, i really liked the fact that it wasn't at the castle, because they kind of misdirected you, like you avoid the castle because you're like this is the end of the game. And then you get there and you're like, oh no, it's not the end of the game. Oh, i guess I can explore this now. There's stuff I can find and not have to worry about, like triggering a cutscene that I wasn't prepared for. So I really liked it. I really liked that gauntlet. I thought the fight was really good. I liked that he also could quote flurry rush. I mean, he didn't like hit you, but like he did that like slow dodge. And I was just like that's nice, i like that's, that's a nice touch, that's a nice touch, and it kind of forced you to probably use mechanics that you don't use very often. I too, am usually very bad at parrying, but I felt like the parrying and the flurry rush windows were a bit more forgiving compared to Breath of the Wild, like you had a little bit more wiggle room with the timing, i think. So it was a really nice fight, i thought.
Speaker 1:So then you alluded to this earlier. Yeah, but Zelda's a dragon, we know this. So it only makes sense that, instead of turning into a giant pig in this game, ganondorf eats his stone and he turns into this massive black and red dragon. You go up into the sky and, like you said, it was probably the coolest kind of final gimmick fight with Ganon we've had so far. You Zelda, of course, like she does in pretty much every game is she's your assist, you know, because you're flying around in the sky But you're just linked with your dinky glider at this point. Yeah, so she's there to bring you back up. You know, to be able to attack again, you have to land on his back and hit these spots. You know typical Zelda formula. But man, just the spectacle. And just at that point, like Adrenaline's pumping, you're hyped, it's going down. Zelda dragon is fighting Ganon dragon.
Speaker 2:You're riding the dragon Like that's what we wanted in Breath of the Wild and we got it And like you can even just ride the dragons now to farm them, which I haven't quite done, but like I know you can. So, like just the fact that, like not only is Zelda a dragon and she's helping you, but you actually get to ride the dragon and you are having like this epic aerial dragon fight And it's just, oh, it's just so good. But I'm a lover of dragons, i love all things dragons. Like this was everything that you like wanted in a final gimmick fight of just like two aerial dragons dueling it out and you're just kind of hopping between both of them and fighting. It's just perfection. I don't know how. I don't know how Nintendo is going to beat this like in future games, because like this is going to be hard to top.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. And what did you think about what happened after and how, like, obviously, you beat Ganon and then, through the power of friendship, you're able to turn Zelda back into a human? How did you feel about how, like it all like actually ended, the bow they put on it, all that Did you find it satisfying?
Speaker 2:I did. I thought it wrapped up nicely. It was like she fulfilled her duty. so thus, like you know, she was able to like break out of that Like everyone's power had been so amplified. So I guess that kind of makes sense that you can like make that argument that like everyone, has been amplified and now that, like this evil has been vanquished, she gets to turn back and like that final, like reaching for her as an old like call back to the very beginning when, like, you failed, yeah, but now you get to save her, and I think it was like a great like ending It was just. It tied the story together really well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the diving after her was was was really cool. That was a really good moment. I thought that it almost kind of seemed to me like the sages from the past and like King Rauru and I was at Sonya. It was like their spirits had been kind of existing in limbo along with Zelda in order to help her defeat this evil, and so then they were able to kind of when they could finally move on was when she was able to be transformed back. I mean, it was a lot of kind of like vague, spiritual, like timeline mumbo jumbo, but ultimately, like you felt good watching it, it was. Yeah, i agree, i really loved that part of the ending and then you rescuing Zelda and her waking up and, you know, you guys having your moment together, and then more happens, which you know I was like, ok, this is cool, it's a nice little, i guess, like epilogue for to see the rest of the characters and see kind of you know where we're at with them and to see the final stage. I can't remember her name.
Speaker 2:Minoru.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to see Minoru. You know she gets to move on now too, and so I thought that that had some some really good moments, was really sweet and it was all set up in the sky, so the backdrop was was really cool, like yeah, yeah. Just put a nice little bow on it. What did you think of that like epilogue section I?
Speaker 2:liked it. I mean, i just I'm, i'm always here for more story. It's like, yeah, you had that final moment of saving her. And then it's like, well, obviously, now that she saved, everyone else is going to want to find out and see what happened. And, like I and I think we kind of saw Minoru moving on at that point, because her purpose was to kind of guide you and give you the information and get you to where you needed to go based on what she learned back in the past Now that her duty has been fulfilled, like everyone kind of gets their happy ending, you know she gets to move on Everyone's. you know the past is at peace and now Hyrule is at peace for about five seconds before you know, something else pops up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Before the, before the next Zelda game. unless we, unless we hop timelines again or something, who knows?
Speaker 2:which probably I don't see like a part three to this. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It'd be I mean, nintendo's crazy. If anybody could do it. They could, but it's really tough for me to see. Like what, what would they do? like the whole next game is underwater, like I don't know how you could change it up.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, i think like they definitely took Breath of the Wild and they expanded it, while still keeping it very like it's similar but different, which is really nice. I just don't. I don't see another iteration being interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What more could you really do? like more different abilities? Okay, yeah, but like we've already thoroughly, like we had Breath of the Wild and then we explored, we expanded it even more with the caves, the underground, the sky. There's really nothing else, unless you're like going to be hopping timelines, like Nintendo's going to make this an official time, like part three is going to be the official timeline and we're going to be hopping timelines between all the games. You know what? If Nintendo does that? I want to kite, but it would be sick. I'm putting it out there now, but I really don't. Unless they do something like that, which seems unlikely, i think, like this is the series and the next game is going to be completely different At least I hope so. Like I love this world, but like I think if you do one more, then you're just going to exhaust people on. It's going to be too much and you're going to lose people. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I know that they've said that they're going to continue with, like, the Breath of the Wild style of game. It's been astronomical, astronomically successful for them, so it makes sense. But that doesn't necessarily mean like a bunch. All the previous games are basically the same style, but they're all very different. So you could still have it be open world or whatever. You know, whatever they mean by style of Breath of the Wild, but it's still be like thematically very different. So, yeah, yeah, i'm curious to see where they go from here. Is there anything else you want to say about the story or the ending before we move into our verdicts?
Speaker 2:No, I think that's like. That sums it up. I mean we can, like I said, we could talk hours about everything like that. I feel like we're just barely scratching the surface. Yeah, there's just so much to talk about in this game, but I think that's that kind of sums it up pretty well.
Speaker 1:Exactly, there's only so much time per episode. but you know, yeah, eventually maybe we can do an even deeper dive, but for now, let's go ahead and move into our verdicts for this episode. So the review and rank games on the podcast and on our YouTube channel, i guess too, is we use the classic letter grade scale A through F, except that there's something better than A, and that is an S, s tier is a masterpiece. So, with that being said, katie, how would you rate Tears of the Kingdom?
Speaker 2:I'm going to give it a solid A.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:I really like it. I like what they did with the story. If someone's tuning in for the spoilers, i don't want to say but like the final gimmick battle is like my favorite of all the Zelda games. I it's just. it's really. it's really really good. I really really like it. But I think for me Breath of the Wild ekes it out just a little bit. I like the simplicity of Breath of the Wild. I feel like this has for someone like me who when I play a game I want to collect all of the things I want to like experience everything the game has to offer. It has won too many things to collect. There's just a little too much to do. It's I don't mind getting lost and getting sidetracked That's part of the fun of exploration, but I think it just has like one too many, i think. but it's, i think it's solidly an A game, but it's not going to break us for me, because I like Breath of the Wild a little bit better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes that makes perfect sense, especially coming from the way that you're coming at these games and the amount of time you've put in Breath of the Wild. I think for me I was. I was thinking about this a little bit and kind of my thought process was I gave Breath of the Wild an S. I think that game is a masterpiece. I loved it for everything How it changed up the formula of the series, you know how it was a breath of fresh air, how it did so much right and it still maintained its like core identity of being Zelda. And this game is just it's building on that. So it kind of loses a little bit of the magic that Breath of the Wild had as far as reinventing what Zelda is and can be.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I don't think that I could sit here and say that this game is worse in any way than Breath of the Wild, and especially as someone like I'm not going to collect everything, i'm probably not going to see every. so just for my experiences with both games I really liked. I liked a lot of the stuff, that iterations that they did and the improvements they made and the changes even if you could argue maybe they're not improvements, just changes. as far as like what we've talked about dungeons and flavoring, and then the way you interact with characters and stuff, i don't think I could give this anything less than what I gave Breath of the Wild. So for that I mean, i think it stands on its own as a really incredible game too. But basically that's just a really long winded way of me saying I'm going to give it an S.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i could see that. I think, just because it's like iterative, that, like that drops it down a little bit, not that it makes it bad, but like, if I'm comparing the two, what am I probably going to play more? I'm probably going to, like go back and play Breath of the Wild a little bit more than I am going to play tiers. So if it doesn't crack my top three because my top three are Breath of the Wild, near automata and Zed of the Chronicles three it hasn't beat those out.
Speaker 1:So is it number four?
Speaker 2:I don't know, i would have to give thought because, like, i really like Elden Ring, but like Elden, like do I put that in the top? I haven't really thought about like my top five. Would it probably break my top five? Yeah, probably. I would have to give that a lot more thought though. But like for me it didn't like my top with my top three. It didn't change my top three, so that's, but it's still a really good game And I feel, from talking to people who have played both, more people are liking tiers And I'm probably a little gatekeepery and being like but but it's still like at the core it's still Breath of the Wild. We didn't go back to the 3D Zelda, so like it didn't really change what your original grapes were with Breath of the Wild. So like I don't get how like this is somehow so much better of a game than Breath of the Wild. I don't. That seems like a little bit of cognitive dissonance to me. But if it gets more people playing the game and more people might check out Breath of the Wild, i'm like I'm all for it. Like it's a great game that people should definitely check it out And it's great for all ages too. Like my kids are playing this. My kids nine and apparently kind of broke the game. I was just reading a discord message that he like inadvertently moved has to and got a different dialogue because he did has to so late after doing all the dungeon. So I'm talking with someone who 31 Jason, he he's, i'm doing his Breath of the Wild 100% route. So he's very big in the Breath of the Wild community and like really big in the tears community and like part of the glitch hunters and all that stuff. So he's just like, yeah, i haven't seen that yet, so that's cool. So yeah, it's great for all ages. And I mean, there's not a whole lot of games that can do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, absolutely Well. I think that would be a. That could be a whole topic of like discussion. What you were talking about being gatekeeping and like the stuff that this one changed. And do poor? do people like it more because they've had more time to sit with Breath of the Wild and the industry has adapted so much from Breath of the Wild that they're used to this Like there's. I feel like that would be a pretty interesting and fun conversation to kind of pick that apart. But yeah, we're pretty much out of time for this episode, so maybe we'll save that for next time. But absolutely, thank you so much for coming on and talking about this game with me. Like you said, we pretty much just like scratch the surface on all the stuff we could potentially talk about, but it was still a lot of fun. We still, you know is still going to be a pretty beefy episode. But before I let you go, definitely want you to plug all your stuff where people can find you, what you've got going on, all that stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you can find me pretty much everywhere I'm on YouTube. I have. I do music videos there of all my cover songs. Like we alluded to at the beginning, i'm a flute player. I do covers of video game and anime music. I did cover Tears of the Kingdom. That video is coming soon. I ended up having surgery in May So I'm a little bit behind like my production schedule. But you can find me on Spotify. All my music is on Spotify, pandora. Anywhere you stream music, you can find me there under Katie Shesco, and I stream on Twitch three days a week. I'm doing a little bit of 100 percent, doing a little bit of music and doing a little bit of Tears of the Kingdom, so a lot of all the Zelda smatterings. So yeah, twitchtv slash, katie Shesco, google my name, you'll find me. I'm everywhere under my name. I make it easy.
Speaker 1:Yes, and all the links will be in the description for this episode. They'll be on our website, for sure, and, if you know, if we get permission from the artist, maybe we'll have some of Katie's music in this episode. So Absolutely, But yeah that's awesome As far as our show. Just the usual plugs jump in our discord. If you want to keep up with us, if you want to chat with us, the YouTube channel is going strong. We've seen some, some traction on some of our recent videos, so that's exciting to see. And if you enjoy the podcast, definitely let us know. Leave us a rating or review. If you can, and if this is the first time you're hearing Katie, then go check out our interview with her, because that was a lot of fun And you kind of get to know a little bit more of her background and gaming history and all that fun stuff. But yeah that is all we have for this Tears of the Kingdom special And thank you all so much for listening. We will catch you on the next episode. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Musician / gamer / mom
Pittsburgh based musician Katie Shesko is merging her love of flute and video games to bring the instrument to less classical music. She not only arranges, records, and produces her music in her home studio, but she also streams on Twitch improvising over the audience’s favorite songs and playing her favorite games.
Katie studied Industrial Engineering at the University of Pittsburgh. While in college, she was involved in the marching, concert, and pep bands. Even though she was an engineer, flute was always her passion.
Katie began streaming on Twitch under the name BackseatLink in November 2016 and became affiliated in April 2017. In May 2019 she hit 10,000 views on her channel with over 750 followers. She is also a certified KinderFlute teacher and is teaching students of all ages in the South Hills of Pittsburgh.
Katie's second music collection - Flute of the Ancients is based on the music from Nier Replicant and was released in April 2021. An original EP inspired by Avatar: The Last Airbender titled "Elemental Journey" released in February 2022.
